Are there any charges involved to the clients in a failed DD attempt?

Hi Duane- Here’s an idea for a quick fix. When viewing the list of customers, can you add a new column ‘marked ‘DD’ with a green ‘tick’ mark or somesuch if a valid DD is set up for the customer, so I can at least go through and process them manually?

Hi Tim,

You can check out the API docs here: https://gocardless.com/docs.

If you’ve got any questions, just get in touch at help@gocardless.com.

Hi Tim,

Thanks – yes, that clarifies it.

I’m not sure it’s something we’ll be able to do anything about in the near future

Although at some point we’ll be be exposing absolutely everything via our API.

In the mean time you may want to look into connecting to GoCardless API directly

Hi Duane, did you see my clarification below?

Hi Duane, wow- great responses – soo quick too.
Let me clarify point 3. I generate my invoices (over 100 per month) in an external app, and insert them into KF via the API. I want a button and/(or the ability to script in API) that says’ for each unpaid or part-unpaid invoice(s) for which there is a valid DD Mandate configured do the following:

a) email the customer a copy or other notification telling them I’m requesting funds for invoices X, Y and Z on or after this date
b) go get the money,
c) mark it as ‘paid’ (or Pending) with a date of when I expect the cash in my bank’

Does this clarify what I’m trying to do?
Cheers
Tim

Thanks for the feedback gr0mit. Looks like Duane’s got you covered but if there’s anything we can help with, just email us at help@gocardless.com.

On a side note holding periods have just been reduced to 7 business days so just 7 days to wait 😉

Hi gr0mit,

1) shouldn’t be a problem. You just don’t tick it until it appears in your account. Are you using the new-style bank rec? (enabled in Advanced Settings)? We’ll soon be upgrading the system so when you first send the payment for collection it says “[PENDING]” in the payment note. This will automatically disappear once GoCardless confirm to us that they’ve collected the funds.

2) Good idea, I’ll see how we can implement this.

3) I don’t understand this. Surely if it’s scheduled to be collected by DD then you wouldn’t need to click “collect DD” – it’s already scheduled.

1) The Paid date in KF is inserted as today. It should really be dated when I expect the cash to hit my bank. i.e. 28 days from today, as otherwise the daily reconcilliation breaks…

2) hitting the pay invoice by DD” button should generate an email copy of the invoice with a notification “This invoice is being settled by DD on or after dd/mm/yyyy”

3) I’d like to be able to see if an invoice is sheduled to be paid by DD on the Sales -. Invoices page, and to be able to select some/all DD invoices and click on ‘collect DD’ to all of them.

Do these makes sense or am I missing something?

Hi Paul,

It’s an interesting point, which to be honest we haven’t come across before. It would be really helpful to discuss exactly how you would like this to work, so we can see what we can do to help. I will drop you an email now.

Best,

Matt

That’s another little piece of the jigsaw then 🙂
Nevertheless it seems to me to be pointless to offer a DD facility to a customer with whom we’ve agreed 30 day terms if we’re going to withdraw funds within the working week in which the invoice is generated. The trigger for taking or triggering the payment must be some function of the payment terms on the invoice concerned.

Hi Paul,

You’re understanding is mostly correct. The withdrawal from the customer account isn’t immediate. The *request* is sent immediately to GoCardless. But these are then batched and processed weekly (I think)

I trust that the ’28 days’ issue is done and dusted as GoCardless website now states ‘7 days’. I’m assuming that the period is an entirely GC issue.

An issue that hasn’t been discussed is that of the timing of the Direct Debit withdrawal. What’s required for my business is that I issue a Repeating invoice at the beginning of every month specifying ’30 days’ (or whatever is specified for that customer) payment terms, and then take the DD payment at the 30 day point.

I’m given to understand though that the DD payment is taken immediately the invoice is created. Is my understanding correct? If so then this would be unacceptable to my customers and the whole exercise fails.

As a small company it’s been very difficult for us to offer a direct debit service. The best we could do is to use RSM2000 on our behalf. That’s been a fairly costly setup and around £10 per batch collection, and no automatic integration with our accounting system/invoicing/emailing.

Thanks very much – we’ll be using the new system….

Hi guys,

Apologies for the belated response, the comments on here seemed to have dried up.

We have spent the past 9 months working with RBS and the FSA to ensure we are fully compliant with scheme guidelines and the relevant regulation.

We would love to help you both with your payment collection so if you would like any further info about using us, or have any specific questions, please email us at help@gocardless.com.

I use Eazycollect and the collect as you state so not sure how they can only collect as GoCardless maybe one of the team will respond I am keen to change due to costs its just the 28 days thats a pain

I use Eazycollect and the collect as you state so not sure how they can only collect as GoCardless maybe one of the team will respond I am keen to change due to costs its just the 28 days thats a pain

That’s the rules, so can’t comment why they aren’t doing this. Maybe RBS is doing something clever with them (their backer), but as I said. That’s what the manual says.

Hello Are you saying taht as Per BACS rules GoCardless can not collect as GoCardless and it has to be GoCardless Re ABC Limited I am now unclear I was about to sign up can you ar GoCardless confirm they are complying with BACS rules?

That’s completely fair. Two points I would make are:

1) The holding period will be coming down in the next couple of months;

2) Sounds like you are in a pretty good position. However, there are many people who can’t get 24 hours till receipt and/or 60p transaction fees; if you’re reading this and that sounds like you, we’re here to help!

Yes, true but even worse! A payer can request a refund of their Direct Debit, if they feel a mistake has been made – right back to their first DD regardless of time.

The BACS Guide and Rules for all Direct Debit Service Users, clearly states that making collections by Direct Debit on behalf of other companies (Facility Management) must be set up with one SUN (Service User Number) per company renamed to FM Bureau re A B Client Ltd – with the clients name showing on the bank statement of their customers’. With one receiving account for each client to keep funds separate and safe – see below extract from the BG&R.

2.3 Variations from the standard set-up
Facilities management

Facilities management is:
‘A service user taking responsibility for the collection or administration of Direct Debits on behalf of another organisation, not necessarily being a service user in its own right’ (FM client). This is distinct from the case of a commercial bureau which merely undertakes the processing function on behalf of a service user or management administration.
A service user may contract with such an organisation to manage its Direct Debit application. This would include:-
corresponding with the payer, receipt of completed DDIs and lodgement with the paying banks management of returned, amended and cancelled DDIs
management of collection files sent to Bacs and the collection of Direct Debit records on the payment due date(s). Reconciliation of processed, rejected and returned items
• It will be necessary for the appropriate contractual arrangements covering the facilities management application to be in place before the service user provides such a facility
•The SUN must be registered at Bacs in the format of ‘AN Company Limited re FM Client’ and this registered format must then be identified on the DDI, where the FM Client is the legal entity on behalf of whom A N Company Limited (the service user) is collecting the funds
• A service user must use a separate SUN for each FM Client. If the FM Client requires the collection to be made using trading names, then the service user must have a separate SUN for each trading name of that FM Client
• Either the name of the service user or FM Client (or both names) quoted on the DDI must be used with the Direct Debit collection record (field 9 of the Bacs data record).
Proceeds from the collection of Direct Debits under the “facilities management” agreement for any new FM Clients taken on by a service user must be directed to an account in the name of the DD service user, specifically designated “Clients” / “Trust accounts”. All such accounts must be held at the same bank i.e. the service user’s sponsor bank. No funds should be paid directly into an FM Client’s own account. In such cases the service user will accept liability for any indemnity claims irrespective of whether or not claims can be recovered from the FM Client to whom the funds have been released. The sponsor authorising such an arrangement will assume responsibility for its service user’s activities.

Matt Link not working can you advsie if there are any charges if a Client makes a challenge to the collections, another provider has advsied me Customers can claim all their money back for more than 2 years of collections if I cannot provide a signed DD Form

Hi Paul. We’re built on paperless direct debit (http://www.bacs.co.uk/Bacs/Businesses/DirectDebit/Services/Pages/PaperlessDD.aspx) so there’s no need to keep a physical copy. In the event of a refund we’ll provide you with all the required info and proofs electronically.

I have been advsied by another company that you have to keep a copy of the DD Form in case your are challenged by the Customer to make a refund? how does this differ for you/

I agree this is great feature, but does need to be in our name!

Definitely, we’re looking to serve other markets as quickly as possible, however, this won’t be for a few months.

If you drop us a mail at help@gocardless.com, we’ll add you to the invite list and make sure you’re the first to know when we do.

No problem. FYI personalised references is something we’ll be looking to add, but unfortunately we just don’t have it in place right now.

That’s a showstopper for me.
Thanks for replying and good luck with your venture.

Hi Vincent. It would appear as GoCardless.

Thanks Tony. The holding periods will be coming down, so even if it doesn’t work for you right now, mail us at help@gocardless.com, or sign up at https://gocardless.com/, and we’ll reach out to you when these are reduced.

Thanks Tony. The holding periods will be coming down, so even if it doesn’t work for you right now, mail us at help@gocardless.com, or sign up at https://gocardless.com/, and we’ll reach out to you when these are reduced.

Hi Sean. That sounds very cool and something we’d love to help you with. If you want to know more info or see API docs etc just mail us at help@gocardless.com.

Hi Sean. That sounds very cool and something we’d love to help you with. If you want to know more info or see API docs etc just mail us at help@gocardless.com.

The biggest barrier for us is the 28 days delay.

Maybe if this was substantially reduced we would embrace it fully but I do understand the fraud prevention reasoning.

We take care of the whole Direct Debit side of things paperlessly making it easier for Customers to complete and reducing the administrative burden for Merchants. This is all done in accordance with Direct Debit guidelines and FSA regulation.

On the holding period and transaction sizes, I’m really sorry if they don’t work for you, but they will be changing over time so hopefully we’ll be able to help you in the near future.

That’s a tricky one then too. Also you’ve mentioned you don’t need to keep forms. The practice we’ve always seen is we have to keep a copy in case we’re challenged by a customer.

Hey Chris. Just to reiterate, the funds are held in a ring-fenced client monies account with our sponsor bank the RBS.

T&Cs are available online in the “Legal” section: https://gocardless.com/legal

And the money is held for 28 days purely for fraud and security reasons. It’s a measure for new merchants. We will review this limit after 60 days and, assuming no issues, reduce it. If you want further info just mail us at help@gocardless.com

Hey Mike. I think we’ve spoken by email but just in case that wasn’t you, and for anyone else who might be in the same position: I’m really sorry but for now the transaction limit is £500, so unfortunately we won’t be able to help right now if most of your invoices are above this figure.

However, if you mail us at help@gocardless.com we can give some thought to how and when we might be able to help you guys out.

If there’s not enough money in the account the payment will fail. We will notify you of this and you will have the option to re-initiate the payment.

And just to second Duane’s comment below, you do not need to keep any record of the DD form, we take care of all of that stuff for you.

Exactly, sorry guys! We really do want to help though and it’s something that will be coming down, both once you’re on the system and for new merchants.

If you drop us a mail with your requirements, even if we can’t help you now, we’ll add you to the list and get back in touch when we can.

Hi Steve,

That’s not a problem. If that’s ever the case, you would just need to contact us at help@gocardless.com and let us know the mistake so that we can resolve it for you.

Best,

Matt

The 28 days is a pain in the rear for a lot of people, but a necessary evil at the moment I’m afraid.

If it’s a showstopper for you then drop them a line and they’ll notify you on how/when they’d be able to reduce it

Ah yes, we could work it that way, it certainly is a good service, I can’t get over the 28 days though, we just got paypal off our back, can you belive they had us on a 60 day 50% reserve, luckily we got a 2 day no reserve solution with sagepay and a merchant number from barclays, anyway, we want to be in business for ourselves, so 28 days is a deal breaker! maybe when they work that out, we’ll be back

Best to check with GoCardless to be sure (contact details at the endof the post above) but I’m pretty sure you get an email to notifiy you of failed payments.

You don’t need to keep a copy of the DD form, GoCardless handle all of that.

Hi David,

When you first set it up there would have been a “pre-configure” checkbox, leavign this checked owuld have removed SgePay as your card processor and put GoCardless in instead.

You can change it back to SagePay in Settings -> Card Options.

You can only have the one PayOnline button on your invoices I’m afraid – either a card processor or GoCardless. But you can have this set to a card processor and use the Direct Debit features elsewhere (ie: Repeat Billing)

The funds are held in a “client account”, this is covered on their FAQ page https://gocardless.com/faq

The T&Cs are there too.

also if we offer DD how will this effect are terms and condtiontions on our own invoices etc also would we have to keep records of the DD form they will in

Thanks Keith. You raise a great point and we would love to help you, and anyone else in the same position. Please mail us at help@gocardless.com and we can talk about possible options. And even if we can’t help right now, we certainly should be able to in the near future.

Thanks Duane. That satisfies my worries and I am going to give it a try.

Hi Phil,

Both the 28 days issue and the client account question are covered on their FAQ page: https://gocardless.com/faq

The API docs I sent to you are the latest. A few things have fallen out of today’s integration which will be updated, so they’re about 98% done. Let me know by email if you would like access to the sandbox as there are a couple of details I will need to get.

If anyone else would like access to the docs, just email us at help@gocardless.com so can set you up on the sandbox etc.

Exactly, although this will not be immediate. In the short-term we can quite quickly (within 2 months of signing up) get this down to 14 days (assuming no fraudulent activity!), and will look to bring this down much more as you build a trading history with us.

For anyone for whom the holding period is an issue, email us at help@gocardless.com explaining what you need, and we will get back in touch as soon as we can offer that.

Thanks Stewart. I agree that for many businesses this needs to come down. This is a starting point for us, for fraud mitigation reasons.

It’s something that we will review with all new merchants within the first couple of months of working with them, and look to reduce i.e., we can quite quickly get this down to 14 days once we’ve built up a trading history with you.

No problem Gavin. If you have any further questions, now or in the future, just send them to help@gocardless.com and we’ll get back to you immediately.

In terms of charges, it’s just one simple, transparent transaction fee, no hidden extras for declined collections etc.

Hmm, such a shame as we’d love to help. If there’s anything we can do, just drop us a mail at help@gocardless.com

That’s why we’re here! If you want to find out more, there’ll be more information on the site by the end of the day, and you can send any specific questions to us at help@gocardless.com

Thanks Duane 😉

Thanks for the feedback Antony, that’s really helpful.

We’re looking to develop the service in the coming weeks and months so feel free to send any feedback to feedback@gocardless.com

Thanks Tom! If you want to know more, just email us at help@gocardless.com

Hi Jason. I’m Matt from GoCardless. I must apologise for the complete lack of information. We’ve been in closed trial and have published limited info publicly. An “About us” and an “FAQ” will be available on the website by the end of the day.

If you (or anyone else) have any specific questions, just email us at help@gocardless.com or email me personally at matt@gocardless.com.

I’ve also sent you a personal email regarding the Perl Module, but in short it sounds great!

OK that worked, thanks.

I have to confess that while I really like the idea I am enormously concerned that it’s so unclear as to who gocardless are. Are they the company Gocardless Ltd or are they one of the two different individuals who are the registrants of the .co.uk and .com domains?

Why is the .co.uk domain website so different to the .com one?

Why do neither of the websites comply with the legal requirements in the UK to clearly show who the website is being run by?

There doesn’t seem to be any documentation anywhere for the service – if there is an API I’d really like to write a perl module for it.

No, no card processing account needed.

Currently I think there is a maximum of 500, but that will be lifted – it’s just because it’s early days. I think after that there’s no limit, as long as your customer authorises it.

Definitely. They have a lovely REST API.

Hi Jason,

Do you have a KashFlow account? GoCardless are very new, this is the first integration with them – so yes, very much beta/invite only.

But if you have a KashFlow account then you can get set up using the instructions above

What I didn’t understand is, do we need to have a card processing merchant account as well?

We also use the paper version so we can have a backup in case the customer doesn’t authorise it.

Looks interesting but too early for us yet….

The 28 day thing is to prevent fraudulent use. Once you’ve been using the system a while and are “trusted” this can be brought way down (I think to something like 2-3 days)

For specifics on this, contact the GoCardless team Twitter: @GoCardless or support@gocardless.com